Talk:Édith Piaf

Accent

Isn't it a bit precious to use "É" all the way through? Accents are usually omitted from capital letters in French; one can use them, but why do it here? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:36, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Here in the English Wikipedia, I think it makes sense to use the same spelling as in the French. Your question is still valid for the French article, though. (I wonder if my local library has a French paper encyclopedia?) Abu ari 08:52, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

The accent issue is a false problem. It is true that for quite a long time, it has been thought to be unnecessary to keep the accent on capital letters. But this comes a technical inability of the old printing machines. In handwriting, we still have to write the accents. Nowadays, with the apparition of the computer, this issue is irrelevent and we yet again have to put the accents on capital letters.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_des_majuscules_en_fran%C3%A7ais#Accentuation_des_majuscules_et_capitales

Sseb22 05:28, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Death

Where should technical errors like the date of Edith Piaf's death being reported as the 10th at the top of the page and the 11th further down in the text be reported? I have similar errors on many pages and would like to let someone know about them. User Alan S12:10, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

They shouldn't be reported but corrected (that's the beauty of Wikipedia). Where you notice a discrepancy but don't know which is the correct version, a note like the one above on the relevant Talk page will do. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 20:21, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

The use of her "official" date of death troubles me greatly. Where is the evidence that she actually died on the 10th? Why is she "officially" said to have died on the 11th, if she actually died on the 10th? Where else in Wikipedia do we provide a date of death that we know is not the correct date? If there is indeed a discrepancy between her actual, proven, date of death and some "official" date, we should use the actual date in the article and give the official date in the footnote, not the other way around. JackofOz 01:14, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Janet Flanner, in her column filed on Oct. 23, 1963 and reprinted in the book Paris Journal: 1944-1965, p.568, reports that Piaf's death occurred at 7:00 AM on a "recent Friday," which, according to my perpetual calendar, would have been the 11th. Flanner also reports that Jean Cocteau died at 1:00 PM on the same day from "a final heart attack, provoked by the news of her demise." The Wikipedia page on Cocteau has his death occurring on Oct 11, 1963. Terry J. Carter (talk) 01:50, 22 July 2013 (UTC):

Song

Wendy McNeill does a fabulous song (http://zed.cbc.ca/go?c=contentPage&CONTENT_ID=121650) about Edith Piaf. Kind of summarizes a lot of her life. FireWorks 20:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Dear Editors of Wikipedia

I would appreciate your sending me information about where you obtained the biographical information for Edith Piaf on the Wikipedia website.

It is my understanding that Edith Piaf's real name is actually: Edith Annette Gisson Holliday. I do not believe that the name Gassion as listed on your website and a fake website with her grave marker is accurate. Also,I do not believe that Edith Piaf was Italian as some of the surnames you have listed would imply. Further, I do not believe that Edith Piaf is related to a circus performer or a madame of a bordello.

According to Janet Flanner, Paris Journal 1944-1965, p. 569, Piaf's name was Gassion, and her grandmother ran a brothel. Flanner's statement dates to Oct 23, 1963. I can't find a Warner bio of Piaf, fake or otherwise, in WorldCat. As Piaf performed in public as a "featured

act" from 1935 until not long before her death, I don't see how anybody could credit the idea of her having been killed during WW II. If Warner did write such a book and if he did connect her to a relative with a brothel, that statement was not original with him. Terry J. Carter (talk) 02:08, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

I heard a rumor recently that Senator John Warner wrote a Fake biography about Edith Piaf since he is making money selling her recordings. I am still investigating how Senator Warner is related to Edith Piaf and how he accessed Edith Piaf's recordings to sell after 1945 when there are people that have said Edith Piaf was actually killed during WWII by the Nazis because of her Jewish heritage the fact that she was related to French and Belgian royalty. One would wonder how Senator Warner left WWII in 1945 with Edith Piaf recordings in tow if Edith Piaf lived beyond WWII.

• Paline HollidayEarpCarroll Brown

Note written 7 months later: The above fascinatingly bizarre opinion was written in January 2006. Apparently, everybody was stunned into silence by its content, since it never got any response, at least not on this page. (John Warner?!?!?) - DavidWBrooks 22:19, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

This does show why the article needs citations desperately.--76.182.88.254 04:48, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I post alleged 'original research' and it gets vaporized in a nano second. rem486 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.255.86.240 (talk) 21:27, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

La Vie en Rose

I recently created an article for La Vie en Rose, so any contributions from people with knowledge about Edith's signature song would be appreciated - AKeen 16:01, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Clean this article up!

It's pretty messy and unprofessional at the moment. Let's clean it up already.

Mark 23:40, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Deletion

The entirety of this article was deleted, without comment, due to alleged copyright violation a few days ago. It seems absurd to have nothing more than "a French singer" for possibly the most famous French chanteuse. I have supplied a translation, more or less bad, of the Piaf article at the French Wikipedia. But I think that some discussion would be warranted before yanking an entire article. RandomCritic 21:03, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi. Well, the article was not "deleted", just marked as a possible copyvio (all the previous revisions are still there and could be restored). It's not excluded (though IMHO unlikely) that the issue is the other way round: the site that I spotted has actually copied from Wikipedia. In any case I guess we had to wait a few days before rewriting the whole content, just to be sure. Please, consider that the page is still listed here:

Wikipedia:Copyright_problems/2006_April_9

In any case I just followed the "canonical" procedure.

What to do about copyright violations

Believe me, I was really disappointed for my "discovery".

--Gennaro Prota 01:06, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, somebody (name not given on the history page) did delete both the article and your copyvio notice.

Not my fault. That's someone who doesn't read what he has in front of his eyes.

In any case you seem to have been mistaken.

Here you still keep some courtesy. There must have been something which made you lose your temper between writing this and the next paragraphs. But it was not me.

If you had provided a link to your asserted site in this talk page the matter could have been investigated;

Don't be offended but you seem very unfamiliar with Wikipedia procedures. Yes, I forgot to add the link as an argument to the copyvio template (because I was in a hurry and because I'm quite new here —this is my first possible-copyvio tagging), but the link is anyway here:

Wikipedia:Copyright_problems/2006_April_9

(if someone provides a link and wastes time for that, please be gentle enough to take it a look)

better yet, you could have investigated it yourself before jumping to conclusions.

I didn't draw conclusions. Rather you jumped the gun. I was investigating yesterday (sorry for not being able to do that *immediately*, boss; I'll ask my company to give me more spare time) and found that the first version which comes close to the one at

http://www.edithpiaf.com/biography.php

is revision as of 04:56, 16 November 2003

That comforted me as the site reports "©2004–present EdithPiaf.com" so it is very likely older.

As it turns out, the biography at EdithPiaf.com is an exact copy of the Wikipedia article as of August 9, 2004. And if you look at the layers of history before that, you can see that the Wikipedia article on that date was not copied and pasted from somewhere else, but the product of months and months of accumulated changes.

Yes. As I said, sorry for not working 24 hours a day here.

It is clear that EdithPiaf.com borrowed the article from Wikipedia and not the other way around. I hope that in the future you will be much more careful about making assertions of copyright violation. Many, many places use Wikipedia as a source.

Your main misunderstanding is that I made an assertion of copyright violation. I just made a report of possible copyright violation. You seem also very unfamiliar with Wikipedia policies and with Wikiquette. Please take a look at that. And remember we are all here for the same reason. No need to bite.

The point is that you, by honest mistake, replaced a good article with a copyright violation notice. The effect of your report was to make the article inaccessible by normal search. Of course it was still in the history, but that is not where one would expect to look for it. Furthermore, people are inclined to assume that copyright violation notices are not only made in good faith (which I don't question) but based on solid information. I would only ask that you refrain from making your "reports" in the future before you have solid evidence that a violation has occurred (e.g., if you yourself are the copyright holder). RandomCritic 13:31, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

RandomCritic 05:13, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I understand your nick now :-(
--Gennaro Prota 12:25, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

---

I don't mind if the article is reverted to the last pre-copyvio form, but I should note that there is a little information in the French article which could be incorporated; for instance, it clears up the October 10/October 11 death date question. RandomCritic 05:13, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Films

There's a section with films without any explanation. Did she act in them or are they about her? AxelBoldt 07:24, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

I wondered this myself. I would say they are about her but I didn't check the full list (I would not exclude that some of them just feature some of her famous songs in their soundtrack). I have worked on this article but then lost interest. I have seen you did a nice work with the section titles. If you continue on this track I guess that will incentive me to join again :) —Gennaro Prota^•Talk 14:20, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Piaf appeared in all of them except "Edith et Marcel" which is about her. It seems that "Al diavolo la celebritá" was included erroneously, so I've deleted it. RandomCritic 20:05, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Probably because Marcel Cerdan appears in it. —Gennaro Prota^•Talk 20:32, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Vandals

someone obviously vandalized the article: From the age of three to seven she was blind, and from eight to fourteen she was deaf and suffered from severe Androgenetic alopecia.

Wathiik 07:38, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Early life

The blindness / deafness issue seemed to me highly unlikely, so I took a look at the versions in other Wikipedias. Her blindness seems to be well-acknowledged, although w:de reports it as having occurred from the ago of 4 through 6 only. But deafness is mentioned only in the English version, with articles in other languages specifically mentioning that she is believed to have begun singing at age of ten. I think someone with access to a reputable biographical work should further investigate the issue. 62.57.0.221 10:34, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

In fact what is true is that she suffered from a "keratinite" that caused her to be almost blind when she was young; part of the problem was cured, but anyway she remained half-blind (on one eye).

This was publicly testified on French TV today, with several people that had lived with her (notably her hair-dresser) invited to a long live TV show, showing and explaining her life, along with other guested actors and the director of the next cinema film that will come to our screens in the next few days: "La Mome", featuring lots of songs from our famous singer (and her love with the French boxer Marcel Cerdant, her two weddings after that, her loves with several French actors or singers). Although the film is oriented, it has been announced as providing only true and verified facts about her life (and those that have lived with Edith Piaf have approved the content). All those persons can testify that she was partly blind during all her life.

However she was definitely not deaf (may be she had some earing problem, or suffered from some otites). This is pure speculation and the way she could master her voice is extremely clear. What is true is the she suffered from alcoolism and drugs, and her appearance was much older than she was really in the few years before her death. And it is true that she remains as a myth that can excite lots of imagination and creativity; that's the destinate of the most famous stars: she was and remains as the French Marilyn, and her songs are still loved so much today with her original voice.

I want comment the very strange comment above, about the invention that Piaf would have died during WW2 (this is pure invention); most successes from Piaf were created after WW2; this is extremely irritating to find such stupidity here when there are much enough proofs (and millions of people that have seen her in public live shows after WW2!) that she recorded and sang most of her successes after WW2, including the greatest success "La Vie en rose" or "Mon Légionnaire". Her voice was really unique and unequalled since then (such voice can't be reproduced today, because the common French accent has evolved a lot since then, as well as the language). 86.221.35.173 16:05, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

2.9.07 I added the premiere of the film, "la mome", at the Berlin Film Festival February, 2007 in the legacy section.

Pure Idiocy

"Today she is still remembered and revered as one of the greatest singers France has ever produced. [citation needed]"

Citation needed??? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.6.130.121 (talk) 23:29, 28 April 2007 (UTC).

Agreed. The citation is absolutely unnecessary.

"Elvis Presley is still remembered and revered as one of the greatest rock'n'roll singer" [citation needed] pole25 20:25, 24 january 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.32.75.131 (talk)

Fact or opinion?

I could say that I thought she was a singer whose reputation was enhanced by her premature death. That might not be true, but it is no more true to say that she is one of the greatest singers ever in France. However, a comment by a respected music critic saying that she was one of the greatest singers would make the statement more encyclopedic and not violate NPOV, which it seems to do now. 66.234.220.195 (talk) 06:47, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

one of france's greatest singers: citation needed?

In the section "Death and Legacy", it's written "Today she is still remembered and revered as one of the greatest singers France has ever produced.[citation needed]".

Do we really need citation for that statement? It's like saying we need citation for Shakespeare being one of the greatest playwrights. I don't think to say she is "one of the greatest" is an exaggeration (much less a statement requiring citation), though saying she is the "greatest" would certainly be. Mmm...perhaps a better concession would be to rephrase the statement? Something enough to convey that she was recognised a being big in France in her day (almost equivalent so say Madonna or Celine Dion) and is certainly a cultural icon?Pristine 12:55, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Whoops, I just noticed someone discussed this above. Anyhow, thoughts are still welcome.Pristine 12:55, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

If it's so obvious, it shouldn't be hard to find a citation for the sentence. Citations are needed on Wikipedia no matter how obvious a statement may seem. That's how it works :) Just find a quick citation and add it. That is the least of this article's problems because most of the article lacks citation of any form.--76.182.88.254 04:44, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not for publishing your own opinion, irregardless of how widely held it is. If you wish to make this claim, it needs to be from a reputable and authoritative source in granting such an opinion Rotovia (talk) 16:46, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

"irregardless" is not a word.69.47.221.232 (talk) 06:09, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Citation needed! Citation needed!

There is no argument about Piaf being one of the greatest WORLD singers (not just for France) in Wikipedia articles in languages other than English. Including Russian page, for instance. Remarkably, it is only US/UK who do not want to admit it. One more proof that people in US/UK are very ignorant towards everything which is not in English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.237.244.226 (talk) 23:16, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

There is no argument that it's not true, just that it needs to be cited. It needs to be cited in other languages' Wikipedia articles as well. People all over the world use the English Wikipedia, not just those from the US and UK.--Gloriamarie (talk) 21:25, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Here's an example of the murky waters of perceived fact and opinion...the above contributor compares Piaf to a Madonna or Celine Dion! Wow! Neither of these pop stars have been particularly good (especially Madonna, if we're talking about singers), although have had huge commercial success. One could find them "great" if one wishes, but uninformed opinion, or undeveloped taste don't count for much, and blanket statements made on their behalf wouldn't be too mature. One may also not like Piaf, and find reasons for why she is overrated, or even good; it's an opinion, but not a well informed one. Comparisons to Judy Garland, or Billie Holiday (or many another wondderful, or influential singer) would carry much more qualitative and critical weight. But alas, it all comes down to opinion, and taste. I find it hard to disagree with the statement in question however , in regards to Edith Piaf, even while I happen NOT to be a Piaf fan, and in this case, it would be foolhardy to have to proove the statement with a quote or reference. My opinion may be that I don't like her, that doesn't alter the cultural fact that she was one of the greatest French singers, and even one of the key world singers of the century. One needn't have a citation that Elvis was one of the greatest rock singers, although conversely one would be hardpressed to state as fact that he was a great singer, or even one of the greatest pop entertainers, regardless of his overwhelming long-term popularity and cultural impact. Simple comparisons, or exposure to tons of other 20th century pop entertainers proves the point fast enough. Same goes for Michael Jackson, and Madonna. That might not change a person's opinion that Elvis was the best, or the FACT that he was a great star of the ROCK era. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.125.236.139 (talk) 02:32, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Irrelevant factoid deleted from intro

"Edith Bunker, the mother on the TV series All in the Family, was named after her." - when I read this in the article's intro paragraph it was a true WTF moment! --Salimfadhley 08:16, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Edith piaf.jpg

Image:Edith piaf.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 01:59, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

An Image is needed for this article!!!--Burgas00 16:56, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Put back the ckuik.com videos

Dear editors I just got a message that my addition of ckuik.com link to videos inspired by Edith Piaf is not allowed. Since I did not do it as to promote my website - it is a service since so many video clips there are great examples of her masterpieces - please put it back and let the visitors get the full picture.

Dr. Dafni —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nadav.dafni (talk • contribs) 23:37, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Please do not add this website to Wikipedia articles. Wikipedia is not a mirror of links or media files. Many of the videos you are linking to various artist articles are in copyright violation. Per Wikipedia's external links policy, links to music videos on ckuik.com are neither unique nor informative, and should not be added to Wikipedia articles./ edg ☺ ★ 23:46, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Place of Death

The place of death in this article is not the same as the French Wikipedia of Edith Piaf.

Is it normal ?

And in the movie (La Môme, 2007, Olivier Dahan), it is also showed that she died in Grasse. Sseb22 05:35, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

No image?

Is there any particular reason why we have no image of Piaf? I thought we were permitted to use fair use ones for people, if the person is dead. - ^Estoy_Aquí^{(t • c • e)} 14:27, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

i don't know how to edit picture boxes etc... but the picture of edith's bust needs to be altered or shrunk or something because currently it is obscuring information about her songs —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.101.56.216 (talk) 14:09, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Marcel Cerdan

"The great love of Piaf's life,[3] the married boxer Marcel Cerdan, died in a plane crash in October 1949, while flying from New York City to Paris to meet her"

According to the PlaneCrashInfo database (http://planecrashinfo.com/1949/1949-46.htm), the plane carrying Cerdan was en route *from Paris* *to NY*. There must be a factual error somewhere: either Piaf was in NY at the time, or Cerdan was not flying *to* her (but perhaps from her?), or the plane was indeed flying to Paris. Does anyone know, which is the case? Kostikrus (talk) 23:16, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

No, it's correct. She was performing in New York at the time. Indisciplined (talk) 12:37, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

WWII Activities

This article: http://ngm.typepad.com/pop_omnivore/2008/02/and-the-omnie-1.html seems to corroborate the idea that Piaf did work for (even if indirectly) the French resistance during the war. The information comes from her sister-in-law, Christie Laume, who I would accept as an authoritative (if perhaps biased) source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.91.171.198 (talk) 07:47, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Reference to work in films

Edith's song L'accordéoniste is referenced and used in the interpretation of Alan Bennetts History . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.6.32.115 (talk) 20:40, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Simone Berteaut

Has anyone any evidence that Piaf by Simone Berteaut, (Penguin 1973, ISBN 0 14 00 3669 5) is merely a fabrication? That Piaf and the author were NOT half sisters, and that Berteaut was merely one of Piaf's many hangers-on? If so, Berteaut still seems to know an awful lot of the 'legend' from the inside. Bluedawe 23:19, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Vandalism?

Some of the edits in this diff do not seem to be true. The statements are not necessarily found in the sources. Would someone please look into this? Thanks Jim1138 (talk) 09:21, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Discography

Why does the discography consist only of "compilations of Édith Piaf's songs, and not reissues of the titles released while Édith Piaf was active"? Is it not possible for someone to list the titles of the albums she actually made? 86.42.33.161 (talk) 17:30, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Named after Edith Cavell?

I am just a bit confused. The article says this:

She was named Édith after the World War I British nurse Edith Cavell, who was executed for helping French soldiers escape from German captivity.

The reference it provides is a dead link, so I can't verify. But since Piaf was born in 1908, before Cavell was executed for helping the French soldiers, I highly doubt this fact is true. From the Edith Cavell article, it seems that starting in 1907 and before 1910, Cavell was matron of a nursing school "L'École Belge d’Infirmières Diplômées on the Rue de la Culture in Brussels." Cavell only began assisting Allied soldiers in 1914.

The facts of the matter are this:

• Edith Piaf was born in 1908 in Paris.
• In 1908, Edith Cavell was the new matron of a newly established nursing school in Belgium.
• Prior to that, Cavell was either training as a nurse in London (1900-1905) or working as a governess in Belgium (< 1900)

Given the above, I find it highly doubtful that Piaf would have been named after Cavell, since Cavell's wartime heroism had not yet occurred at that time.

I have tagged the reference in the article as a dead link, so that someone might try to dig up an archived version or another reference. Mûĸĸâĸûĸâĸû _(blah?) 03:49, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

The current article gives 1915 as her birth-year. I don't know where 1908 came from. Valetude (talk) 12:23, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

According to the Crosland bio, she was named after Edith Cavell, but I haven't cross-checked this. 94.197.12.104 (talk) 17:03, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Married two or three times?

At one point the article refers to [Theo Sarapo] as Edith's third husband, but only two marriages are ever mentioned. His wikipedia article makes the same assumption. Aebcoreno (talk) 21:47, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Place of Birth--Sidewalk or Hospital

Janet Flanner, in the source I have cited two/three times already and am too rushed for time to repeat, but see above, says that Edith Piaf was born on a sidewalk and that two policemen assisted in the birth. Could it not have been possible that her mother and she were then taken to a hospital for further attention, and that a birth certificate was filled out there? That's beyond original no-no research, it's original speculation !!! but the answer to the birth dilemma might be "all of the above." Terry J. Carter (talk) 02:18, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Margaret Crosland says the sidewalk story is untrue and that she was born in a hospital- I haven't cross-checked this. 94.197.12.104 (talk) 17:03, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Death and funeral: the mystery continues

German wikipedia explains the circumstances of her death rather well. Like other wikipedias, I think we should go for the 10th as her real date of death. Today it is 50 years ago.

Both French and English wikipedia mention the claim that she did not get a Roman Catholic funeral, because the Archbishop of Paris forbade it. However, I am old enough to remember the TV news item about her funeral and the general standstill in Paris as her body was taken to Pere Lachaise. I distinctly remember the broadcaster saying a funeral service had taken place at an Orthodox church. As I could not find that on any wikipedia, I thought my memory was faulty. A bit of googling, however, proved it was not. Photo of an Orthodox Priest Performing the Funeral Rites of Edith Piaf

Since Theo Sarapo was of Greek origin, one may wonder whether he ever envisaged an RC funeral. After all, the couple married at an Orthodox church as well. Can we be sure there really was a veto by the Archbishop? Of course, Edith may have asked for an RC funeral, and after the veto, Theo may have opted for the next best thing. Or Edith may have checked with RC priests before her death (she may have known that she would not live much longer), and have got the answer that there was a veto from the Archbishop. In any case, the fact that she did get a Christian burial anyway should be mentioned if we keep the story about the veto. --Paul Pieniezny (talk) 21:56, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

I agree that this is probably worth going into a little more. From what I can see, there appears to have been some question of a Catholic funeral and clear evidence of a veto. David Bret goes into this in his book. "The Piaf Legend" and quotes a statement from Maurice Feltin, the Archbishop at the time. I can only access the book in snippet form on google books, but Feltin's statement seems to have run: "The honours that the Church reserves for its dead cannot be rendered towards Edith Piaf because of an irregular situation. Those who have appreciated the talents of Madame Piaf are deeply moved by her sudden death. Christians aware of her faith and charity will not fail to beseech divine mercy for her soul at the sacrifice of the Mass". Bret goes on to say prayers were said at the cemetery by two priests: Fr Thouvenin de Villaret, and a Jesuit, Msgr Martin. Bret's implication is both were Catholic, but given Sarapo's background it would be unsurprising if there was an Orthodox priest present too. If someone knows where to look in contemporary newspaper reports (French ones would be best) then it shouldn't be too difficult to get some further clarification on this. ANB (talk) 00:35, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm making an edit to the section about the funeral being denied today, having seen this article quoted on a Reddit thread. The article before the edit states that she was denied a funeral Mass "because of her lifestyle", relying on a Guardian article from 2003. However the Guardian's own archives give a more complete reason, quoted at https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2008/oct/14/2 : that she had remarried after a divorce in a Greek Orthodox Church. "Remarriage" is impossible in Catholic theology while a valid marriage still exists, and resorting to a Orthodox Church to 'remarry' implies a choice to move from Catholic to Orthodox theology and jurisdiction - and a Catholic funeral Mass is not appropriate for someone who has made the choice to become Orthodox instead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daldred (talk • contribs) 13:33, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

birth date

If the listed source claims her birth date is December 15, why is December 19 listed in introduction and the side bar box? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.35.161.105 (talk) 03:35, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Inception

Hi All, Just wanted to mention that I reworded the sentence "Probably the most famous use of one of her songs was in the film "Inception"." Édith Piaf was a superstar for decades, and according to this article some of her live recordings have "never been out of print." It doesn't seem fair to say that the most famous use of one of her songs is a novelty appearence in an American movie. 71.11.110.90 (talk) 00:46, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

I totally agree with you re. "It doesn't seem fair to say ... " etc.

I'd like to suggest that replacing the sentence with the following would be more than adequate: Non, Je Ne Regrette Rien was also used as a prominent motif in the narrative element of the film "Inception". The song is already famous and she will be remembered as a super-star long after this movie is forgotten. (I added "also" to the sentence since Non, Je Ne Regrette Rien is referred to in preceding paragraphs.) - Xenxax (talk) 11:27, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Jean Cocteau's Friends

Were all Nazi collaborators it seems ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.18.230.179 (talk) 05:57, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Édith Piaf. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070714183814/http://www.paris.org/Kiosque/feb98/love.html to http://www.paris.org/Kiosque/feb98/love.html

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Shame

Comment: this article is a shame for english Wikipedia. How it is possible that an article about Edith Piaf has in the first line that she was a "Cabaret Singer" ? It's enough to say that 70% of French artists (and of other nationalities on Paris) started singing on Cabarets, so why there's not a "Cabaret Singer" as the definition of Jacques Brel work, to use only one example? Ridiculous. Besides that, mentioning abhorred "rumors" about her life. It's sourced, but what really does matter a "rumor" having a source? So, there's a rumor about Edith Piaf's life, a very offensive rumor, but there's a source for the rumor, so it's ok. Ridiculous... Edith Piaf is too way important artist for having a biography of that level. Shame on Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.6.227.188 (talk) 06:20, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

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Pronunciation

@NKM1974: let me explain. /i/ already includes the pronunciation [piːˈɑːf], in free variation with [pɪˈɑːf], so it is absolutely redundant to transcribe the former pronunciation separately. That’s how we should deal with these cases in Wikipedia transcriptions. American sources normally just use the same symbol that is used for phonemic /iː/, whence probably your confusion originates. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 07:59, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

@IvanScrooge98: This is the information on LPD 3rd edition by John Wells: BrE [ˈpiːæf] & AmE [piːˈɑːf]. This is the information on CEPD 18th edition by Peter Roach: BrE [ˈpiːæf] & [piːˈæf] AmE [ˈpiːɑːf] & [piːˈɑːf]. These two phonetics: ([piˈɑːf] is the same as [piːˈɑːf]) and ([piˈæf] is the same as [piːˈæf]). Am I correct? In that case, you should be adding 2 colons next to the i, as in /iː/. It's very confusing & Wikipedia uses the BrE IPA & not AmE IPA. NKM1974 (talk) 13:00, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

@NKM1974: I’d have to know how those sources normally transcribe /i/ before vowels to know whether is can only be tense as you say. Can you provide me any similar examples from them? 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 13:42, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

@IvanScrooge98: Here's a Wikipedia link Close front unrounded vowel, happy /i/ in AmE & fleece /iː/ BrE. Since I based everything on listening/speaking & not an expert on phonetic rules, User:Nardog might be able to resolve this issue. NKM1974 (talk) 05:17, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

@NKM1974: what I meant is some examples that may have /i/ followed by a vowel, to see how the sources would transcribe it. But probably Nardog knows what system they use. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 05:31, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

/ˈiːdɪθ/ does seem the most common way English speakers pronounce her first name at least based on Youglish, but Edith is also an English given name so we can't use a dictionary as a source for it unless it specifically gives /ˈiːdɪθ/ for Édith, with the acute; it also means /eɪˈdiːt/ given in M-W is most likely prescriptive (see this discussion [perma]). /ˈpiːæf/, /pi(ː)ˈæf/, /ˈpiːɑːf/, and /pi(ː)ˈɑːf/ all do seem plausible and attested variants, but if we included them and cluttered the lead, it would be giving too much information to the point of giving no information. As for /iː/ vs. /i/, taken at face value, LPD is saying that the first syllable is not reduced—which is not readily discernible because all varieties of modern GA have the same quality in FLEECE and happY, but which could nonetheless be substantiated if a stress shift occurred in e.g. "a ˌPiaf ˈsong"—again, if taken at face value; it could be just a typo. Nardog (talk) 19:02, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

@IvanScrooge98:, it's the fleece /iː/ vowel that's missing & the happy /i/ vowel should be removed. @Kbb2: & @Nardog:, thank you for resolving this matter. NKM1974 (talk) 01:03, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

@Nardog: So we're mostly speaking of an artificial distinction. Weak /i, u/ and most likely /ər/ (though the strong variants of these should still be written with ⟨i⟩, ⟨u⟩ and ⟨ər⟩) don't exist in AmE except on some abstract level that's inaccessible to an ordinary speaker (in RP, the final vowels of "happy" and "pedigree" can be distinct even for happy-tensers, also compare "forward" vs. "foreword"). I really wish the editors of LPD and CEPD would get their facts straight and removed the length marks from AmE transcriptions (as well as the artificial distinction between NURSE and LETTER - GA features only the former). Kbb2 (ex. Mr KEBAB) (talk) 08:05, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

bisexuality and affair with Marlene Dietrich

According to Stephen Bach in his Dietrich bio, and Dietrich's daughter Maria Riva in her book Marlene Dietrich, Piaf and Dietrich were lovers. Margaret Crosland mentions that Ginette and Simone Berteaut lived with her, but says there was 'no lesbian relationship' with them. I have not yet checked this with other sources. Piaf is listed in the Wikipedia list of bisexual people, so shouldn't she have bisexual women, bisexual musicians/entertainers, bisexual actresses categories? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.197.12.104 (talk) 16:56, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Édith Piaf/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: TompaDompa (talk · contribs) 00:28, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

This is a WP:QUICKFAIL based on criterion 1 (It is a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria) and 3 (It has, or needs, cleanup banners that are unquestionably still valid. These include {{cleanup}}, {{POV}}, {{unreferenced}} or large numbers of {{citation needed}}, {{clarify}}, or similar tags (See also {{QF}})). Specifically, it fails WP:GACR 1a (the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct), 1b (it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch [...]), and 2b (reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose)), and needs the corresponding maintenance tags. I'll list some of the specific issues I noted while reading through the article:

• Generally, the article needs a thorough copyediting.
• The lead is way too long.
  • For one thing, it is eleven paragraphs. WP:LEAD says As a general rule of thumb, a lead section should contain no more than four well-composed paragraphs. This could likely be fixed by judiciously merging paragraphs. I see no reason the first two paragraphs couldn't be a single paragraph, for instance.
  • More importantly, it is roughly 700 words for a prose article where the body is roughly 2,000 words long. There really is no scenario where a prose article should have a lead approaching a third of the length of the body—either the lead needs to be condensed further or the body needs to be expanded. As a point of comparison, the WP:Featured article Sinking of the Titanic is roughly 13,000 words, with a lead of roughly 400 words (and for a more recently-promoted FA example, Mars in fiction likewise has a 400-word lead, for an 8,000-word article).
• There is some redundancy and self-contradiction in the lead. The lead should very rarely repeat information within itself—it it does, that's a sign that it should be condensed further.
  • Édith Piaf (born Édith Gassion; 19 December 1915 – 10 October 1963) was a French singer [...] and She was born Édith Giovanna Gassion in Paris in 1915 to Annetta Giovanna Maillard. repeat the birth name (somewhat self-contradictorily) and year of birth needlessly.
  • Her most widely known songs include "La Vie en rose" (1946) and Piaf's signature song, La Vie en rose ("life in pink") was published in 1945 repeat information about the song and introduce a contradiction about the year.
  • Her stage name Édith Piaf was created at the age of twenty, when she started her singing career. and Piaf was acquited and changed her stage name to Édith Piaf. both introduce the stage name. "Acquited" should also be "acquitted".
  • Piaf's father was Louis Alphonse Gassion, an acrobatic street performer. and she accompanied her father on tours around France performing street acrobatics could be combined to avoid mention street acrobatics twice.
• The lead jumps back and forth in time a fair amount. The body does this too, to a lesser extent.
• There are several items in the lead that I would expect to be linked, but aren't. Examples include German occupation of France and The Ed Sullivan Show.
• Song titles are given in "quotes", not italics, per MOS:POPMUSIC.
• The lead gives the translation of La Môme Piaf as "the waif sparrow" or "the little waif", the infobox gives it as "The Little Sparrow", and the body gives it as " The Waif Sparrow" or "The Little Sparrow".
• Piaf was partly raised by her paternal grandmother in Bethandy, Normandy. – that should be Bernay, right? That's what the body says.
• From 1940-1944 – see MOS:ENFROM. The hyphen should be an en dash, but there shouldn't be a dash at all when preceded by "from".
• Piaf met actor/singer Yves Montand – see MOS:SLASH.
• the two conducted an affair – this phrasing seems a bit odd.
• Her last song, L'Homme de Berlin was recorded with her husband in April 1963. – the husband in question has not yet been mentioned at this point, which means the reader does not have the necessary context here.
• Large portions of the body resemble WP:Proseline writing.
• Despite numerous biographies, much of Piaf's life is unknown. – the source only says If even half of Olivier Dahan's robust film about Piaf's life is true -- and let's face it, much remains shrouded in myth and mystery, making no point about biographies. "Despite X, Y" is textbook WP:Synthesis.
• sparrow (a small bird) – I doubt we need to gloss "sparrow", especially if it's linked.
• The year-span subheadings in the "Career" section are a bit dull. I might suggest subheadings along the lines of "Early career", "World War II", and so on.
• Piaf took a room at the Grand Hôtel de Clermont in Paris and worked with Berteaut as a street singer around Paris and its suburbs. – unsourced.
• Leplée persuaded Piaf (then known by her birth name of Édith Gassion) – this is just a very clumsy way of writing it. I would suggest writing that he persuaded "her".
• A barrage of negative media attention now threatened Piaf's career. –this is the kind of WP:EMPHATIC language WP:Writing better articles advises against.
• This song was entered into the Grammy Hall of Fame in 1998. – unsourced.
• In April 1963, Piaf recorded her last song before her death, titled L'Homme de Berlin. – unsourced.
• In October 1949, Cerdan flew from Paris to New York City to meet Piaf, however his flight was Air France Flight 009 which crashed while attempting to land at a stopover in Portugal. – rather clumsy way of including the link to Air France Flight 009.
• Piaf's drug dependencies are attributed – by whom?
• the two remained married until Piaf's death. – unsourced.
• before passing away – MOS:EUPHEMISM.
• In 1973, the Association of the Friends of Édith Piaf was formed, followed by the inauguration of the Place Édith Piaf in Belleville in 1981. Soviet astronomer Lyudmila Georgievna Karachkina named a small planet, 3772 Piaf, in her honor. – unsourced.
• The "Discography" and "Filmography" sections are unsourced, as is the "Biographies" subsection.

I wish you the best of luck with this article in the future, and hope to see it renominated once the issues listed above have been addressed. In the meantime, I'll add some maintenance tags to the article. TompaDompa (talk) 00:28, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Why is there no mention of her daughter Marcelle?

Many other biographies on the Internet mention the birth of a daughter. https://uofa.ru/en/biografiya-golosa-parizha-edit-piaf-sudba-malyshki-s-golosom/ Grandma Roses (talk) 12:12, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Grandmother or mother?

"Annetta's father was Auguste Eugène Maillard (1866–1912) of French descent and her grandmother was Emma (Aïcha) Saïd Ben Mohammed (1876–1930), an acrobat of Kabyle and Italian descent."

As Emma (Aïcha) is declared to have been the grandmother of Piaf she cannot have been the grandmother but only the mother of her mother Anetta. 2001:9E8:24A:F000:75B3:ADBE:B7C9:EC8C (talk) 17:29, 18 November 2024 (UTC)